Until recently most of my design was for web. My new job has me designing for print. I would like advice on things to do/not do when it comes on creating these files for print. I recently took over the position from another designer and had to rework about 6 items due to spot color/opacity issues. I want to make sure I dont make that kind of mistake.
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, October 3, 2005 - 2:57 PMthat's a loaded question... um, try and keep graphics 100% to size, save as cmyk or greyscale... no rgb unless it is for billboard or large sign... sometimes they request rgb... there are tons of do's and don'ts depending on the software you are using... do you always use the same printer?
here you go, contact your printer and start a dialog with them... beginning with Do you have any printer specs you would like me to follow or that you recommend... ie: what software and versions do you use, trapping info, mac/pc platform?, etc. etc. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, October 3, 2005 - 3:47 PMI totally agree with Bailey on this one...develop a relationship with your printer...they can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Be proactive and make them your best friend. The printer can be quite helpful in letting you know what will/won't piss them off. You'll get the best results this way. :o)
Hi, Bailey :o) -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Tue, October 4, 2005 - 11:27 PMthanks for the tips, guys. Im just getting to know the printers... :) -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Tue, October 11, 2005 - 7:44 PMoh i wish our customers would like to find out what pisses us off......
;-)
but tips from me.....depends what you're printing on. One HUGE gripe we have is when designers send us flashy artwork that which is all well and good. Except for we have to convert most colours from CMYK to spot. GRR, dont they know how to use the swatch libraries properly (maybe they just dont care)?
Oh and when we get all sorts of layers and hidden random colours in an artwork. It helps to weed all those things out. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Tue, October 11, 2005 - 8:28 PMdefinitely, the tighter your files are, the more your printer/prepress house will love you. be clean, precise, and consistant. and always double-check your bleeds.
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Wed, October 12, 2005 - 1:44 PMRandom colors drive me up the wall...if you're not using it, get rid of it! And what's with all the layers? Many a night I have spent at work removing extra crap from files...I could have made a sailor blush with my words! -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Wed, October 12, 2005 - 5:32 PMI always try to clearly label my layers, and trim out unused ones from the last version of a file. Hell, thats just for ME so *I* dont go crazy when I have to open it a week later and dont remember.
I have had an agravating time with Ill.CS2 spot colours and transparancies/ Enough to make me scream. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Wed, October 12, 2005 - 6:39 PMat least there's layers to work with now! when i was doing prepress fulltime there was no such thing; had to layer manually in Quark, which was a LOT of fun when you're trying to do trapping...
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, July 31, 2006 - 8:15 AMI recently received a HUGE Illustrator file from a customer.
Turns out they had FIVE versions of the design, on different layers.
Could've been worse--at least they used layers. I've seen
jobs where the artist just drew a white box to cover up the
previous version of his design!!
Robert -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, September 24, 2006 - 10:31 PMHey, I have CS2 illustrator; in the preferences there is a box for measure; in that box there is a value for screen resolution and a value for print resolution. Is that just to let you know which to use for what? OR is it even better; and you can set them the same to see what your pub will look like when it's pub'd?
I'm just starting with it, I also have indesign, so can I also ask a dumb Q? Can illustrator make a whole publication, or do you have to make your fancy artistig design, and import it where words can be put - in indesign? Hope that even makes sense. I guess another way would be to ask if there is text importing and editing in illustrator, or is it only for graphics and ads with little print?
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Wed, July 19, 2006 - 4:47 PMEszter, I think they (designers) just don give a "care" when it comes to placing color on their designs I mean they are the designers but unfortunately we're (print production peons) we have to do what is right and then try to explain to the designers why it it is what we did to their beautiful artwork and a lot of times we' re right it just depends who they know in you agency like our boss in that case it's good to keep in good spirits with the creative director of the agency or in other words...have him or her on your side.
peace...
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, December 4, 2005 - 8:24 PMHi Bill, i've been slackin... :-P
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, December 19, 2005 - 11:54 PMHi I run a newspaper for a highschool; something I've done many times before, but every time I get a newspaper gig, all the rules have changed. Last time was in 98 when We were still using a waxer and putting the thing together and sending it off with photos and sizing etc. Now, it's all done as a file. Which, is amazing and wonderful, because kids hate to stay at school that late.
Anyway, I've been a student reporter and layout editor and I've been an adviser many times, but I have no training. I can use pagemaker and photoshop to do exactly what I want them to do, but I don't know WHY I'm doing things many times.
So I just sent off my first publicatiopn for this school year and here's what I assumed I should do: I made every image and font grayscale. I only used photos that were larger than 300 dpi. I used Times New Roman for type and different type for headline depending.
Here are some questions...I tried to make it a pdf so it was a smaller and condensed file because I had a friend who was required to do that for a printer, but when I did, some of the headers (fonts) dissappeared. I thought a pdf was supposed to correct the font problem?
Second thing; is there a way you suggest I make all prints equal...like can I scan a 200 in at 300 dpi and have it be less fragmented when stretched?
The printers have always made thier own decisions, you you see any major thing I need to do to prep the paper before I send it off?
Are there fonts besides TNR that are pretty universal, okay for newspaper headings and one that MOST printers have?
Well thanks if anyone's around! -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 10:07 AMok
#1 ask your printer what linescreen they are printing at... usu. for newsprint the answer will be 85 lpi, double the lpi 85 x 2 = 170. 170 is the ppi that you should be using. If your publication is 150 linescreen, the ppi would be 300.
#2 If you are concerned about file size then make your images 170ppi at minimum 100% to the size they will print. You can scale your image down, although do not scale it more than 20%. DO NOT increase the image more than 100% it will come out bitmapped.
#3 Regarding PDFs... talk to your Printer... make sure they will accept the PDFs, and how they would like to receive the pages. IE: all in one document, or page by page.
#4 If your printer is okay with you submitting PDFs make sure your settings are correct, that the the fonts are embedded. Use only PostScript fonts, not TrueType or MultiMaster Fonts. (That's standard for newsprint... again ask your printer)
good luck,
Bailey
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sat, December 31, 2005 - 8:43 PMSorry for taking so long to reply, I appreciate this, I think I read it, got excited, didn;t have time to post and then it was out of mind.
Can you explain your last tip to me...what is a true font, and how would I know the difference?
Also, why do I not scale something down more than 20%?
<<make your images 170ppi at minimum 100% to the size they will print.<<
not sure what this means...
cheers!
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 9:13 PMI ran a press for 25 years. My biggest gripe about computer graphics is this:
ALL INK COLOR IS TRANSLUCENT!!!!
So watch your backgrounds, TRAP YOUR COLORS (If you don't know how, at the VERY least make all your type in CMYK, do NOT just put black type over a color background, especially if the background changes. You MUST knock out the background behind text. (Maybe copy the text and change the font color to white, then paste a new text layer over in the same place in black)
Sorry, but I got really tired of green type all the time... -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 10:59 PMHi Lee!~
I have done a newspaper for years; I well know everything goes to the printer in half tone or B&W. I'm having problems with fonts and pictures and graphics.
I have to learn to create the file in a PDF where all the fonts show up and to include the fonts in the file and also to include the actual photos.
I'm doing this alone and next paper will be 12 pages. *sigh*
I work in a really small school. But my paper is professional because well, I know how and I'll do nothing less. And I'm getting extra money to do it. However...I am bald now as we finished it over a month ago!!! and it's still not printed because of my ignorance of today's printing requirements/procedures. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:14 PMWell, I quit printing about 5 years ago (I found I could make more as an entry level computer tech than I could as a 25 year master printer!) but I do know that to keep fonts even in a pdf, you have to convert them to curves, so they become a graphic instead of a font. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:28 PMwhat is this...language...
He's trying to tell me something, I just know it!
What do I physically do to make that work? -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:45 PMin Illustrator its called Convert text to Outline. On pc its CTRL+SHFT+O I think...
Also when creating the pdf (if doing so from withen another program, such as Illustrator, when picking save as pdf you should get a big grey box full of options, and if you look around in it, perhaps on another tab, you should see the option to imbed text and images. Sorry this is so vague, but Im going from memory here. )
I hope this helps.
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:38 PMWhat are you desinging the paper in? are you saving as a pdf (such as from Illustrator, etc?)
When saving (forgive me, this is from memory) there should be a large grey box that appears giving you options. If you click through the tabs, you should find a place where it gives you the option of embedding everything.
I hope this helps somehow. I was in a very similar situation a few months ago and had to learn acrobat in about 4 days. :)
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:48 PMsorry, I thought Tribe ate my post. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 11:54 PMI tried to find that tick, I'm looking again...I'm using...are you ready for this? Pagemaker 6.5!~
But my school has indesign 2.0, so I have to learn that.
anyway...the only place I can see to do a pdf is "file" then "export to pdf" and there are no more than one page to tick things there :( -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, January 9, 2006 - 12:05 AMooh ooh I found it! Yaay! thank you! -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, January 9, 2006 - 12:52 AMNP, as I said, I feel your pain and was in your shoes not that long ago.
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 11:03 AMIf you are using pagemaker 6.5 it would be better to create your PDF with Acrobat Distiller. Do you have access to that?
Have you asked your printer for their specs? How they would like to receive your files? Individual pages? All in one PDF?
It would really behoove you to learn InDesign, even if it is only 2.0. You would be able to create the file(s) without using distiller (not recommended, but doable).
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 11:05 AMWhat do you mean by import the actual photos? It sounds like you are downsampling? What other file types, besides photoshop tiffs are you using? Illustrator .eps? photoshop .eps?
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 12:58 PMI found a printer who will teach me everything and they have tutorials and everything. Plus I can order as little as I want and their prices are good. They have a 24 hour turnaround deadline. I'm stoked, but now my staff is all falling apart because grades came out and they are scrambling for other classes. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 8:52 PMdamn! who IS it?!?! -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 9:58 PM
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, February 6, 2006 - 6:36 PMrock on! -
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Unsu...
Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Thu, February 9, 2006 - 1:27 PMa few more tips:
- when you submit your files make sure to embed the fonts and graphics, and submit links for those.
- when submitting art for coldset open web printing (newsprint, etc) keep in mind that the average dot-gain is around 20%. pre-adjusting the photos is key to keeping the images and color builds from getting too dark once on press. many printers will preflight test files for you, correct them and send them back to you to use as a benchmark for the real job. also try and avoid the use of type built in cmyk. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 2:34 PM
- when you submit your files make sure to embed the fonts and graphics, and submit links for those.
when you are finished with a file, you have an option to embed it, right? Like as in photoshop, you work in layers, and you can save it in layers, but you can also save it compressed, is that the same as embedding?
- when submitting art for coldset open web printing (newsprint, etc) keep in mind that the average dot-gain is around 20%. pre-adjusting the photos is key to keeping the images and color builds from getting too dark once on press. many printers will preflight test files for you, correct them and send them back to you to use as a benchmark for the real job.
What is a cold-set open web printing? does dot gain mean that it sorta builds on itself and clogs the image (on a micro level) so that the image is darker? Even if I had that in mind, what do I do to prepare it? Do I finish the thing exactly the way I like it, then lighten it a bit before sending it?
also try and avoid the use of type built in cmyk.
Someone else said avoid true fonts...how do I know what kind a font is? Are there any that are so universal, you'll find them anywhere (besides Times New Roman of course?) -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 6:15 PM"...but you can also save it compressed, is that the same as embedding? "
no -- file compression is a way to make files smaller and easier to move around. embedding is a way of putting your art files (photoshop, illustrator) INSIDE the layout file (InDesign, Quark) and is preferred by some people over mearly LINKING to the external art file. there are pros and cons to both, but personally i don't embed any files because then if there's something wrong with embedded image, the service bureau doesn't have a proper copy of the file to make the repair. though again, your printer is going to have a preference and you should check with them.
with fonts, you don't embed them, but you can convert them to outline, which makes them art and no longer a font. again, pros and cons -- pro: no missing fonts at the service bureau; con: you can't spellcheck art. it better be right!
"...does dot gain mean that it sorta builds on itself and clogs the image (on a micro level) so that the image is darker?"
yeah, pretty much. Dot Gain is actually caused by the paper soaking up more ink than intended, which creates a larger dot when printed. so a 10% dot will look like a 30% dot when finished. most output is adjusted for dot gain already, but again, check with your printer and see what they recommend.
"...Someone else said avoid true fonts...how do I know what kind a font is? "
what he's talking about when he says "try and avoid the use of type built in cmyk" is to not make the type a color other than black (and mainly we're talking about small point body type) for many reasons, but a few are: it's hard to control on press, the type is then made up of four screens instead of only one, it creates a lot of saturation on the newsprint and thus more dot gain and looks chunky, etc.
what "someone else" was talking about is using TrueType fonts as opposed to OpenType or Postscript fonts. unless you really want to geek-out on the intricacies of fonts, i say don't worry about it. you should be just fine with what you're doing. -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 7:33 PMhow do you link? How do you embed...you can say things like...go to file and find the ____command before you save...or there's an embed command in indesign located ____
where do you convert them to artwork? (commands ans menus etc)
I do want to geek out, this all fascinates me...what's the difference?
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 9:35 AMit's pretty much the same in Illustrator or InDesign:
1) select the image with the selection tool (the black arrow)
2) go to the Links palette (Window > Links if it's not open already)
3) click on the fly-out menu button; it's on the side of the palette, probably a little round circle with an arrow in it.
4) choose Embed Image
5) you can also (right/control)-click on the image to get the option
note: EVERYTHING has to be right for this to work correctly when it gets to the press, so the image resolution and color space have to be correct. it will also make your file size much larger. these are both good enough reasons NOT to embed anytihng, IMHO...
to convert text to outlines in Illustrator or Indesign:
1) select the text line with the selection tool (the black arrow)
2) go to the type menu and select "Create Outlines"
3) in illustrator you can also (right/control)-click on the image to get the option
i usually do that to a COPY of the text line, so i can still change the text if i need to.
"I do want to geek out, this all fascinates me...what's the difference?"
i think there are some things that you need to know how it works but don't really need to deal with on a regular basis. for me, that means things like dot gain and trapping.
those things, again IMHO, are better left to the press house and not a prepress service bureau, primarily for this reason: these things are variations that are dependent on intricacies of the press the job will be printed on. every press is different, but most service bureaus treat all output the same.
so if your output isn't geared specifically for the press it is being printed on, it makes it that much harder for the press to deliver a quality product.
but again, all that depends on the expectations for the job... if i'm printing band flyers on a color copier, i really don't care that much. if i'm printing 2million impressions of a direct mail piece, then i'll lose sleep over the trapping and dot gain, and the paper, and the ink, and the spell check, and... -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 6:07 PMyeah my school has no idea what a student publication is...they loose sleep over my pub if it's not perfect like that. And I loose sleep over how I'm going to mess them up cause that's just not right; I have another job.
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Fri, March 23, 2007 - 10:46 AMI need to outline text from a photoshop file. Can I use the steps you described in Indesign -
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Re: designing for print, or ways to keep from pissing off the printer
Fri, June 15, 2007 - 11:14 AMOn the toolbar menu, you will find Layer - Rasterize - Type...this will convert the layer to an image rather than editable text.
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